ReligionWise
ReligionWise
Post Colonialism and Global Mission in the Contemporary World - Janelle Neubauer
This episode of ReligionWise features the Reverend Janelle Neubauer who currently serves as the College Chaplain and Director of Religious and Spiritual Life at Muhlenberg College. Prior to holding that post, Pastor Neubauer has had a number of experiences in ministry abroad, including as a missionary pastor for the Lutheran Church of Rwanda. In this conversation, we discuss the contemporary practice of global mission work in the post-colonial experience as well as the opportunities and challenges of this type of work in the global south.
Welcome to ReligionWise the podcast where we feature educators, researchers and other professionals discussing topics on religion and their relevance to the public conversation. My name is Chip Gruen. I'm the director of the Institute for Religious and Cultural Understanding at Muhlenberg College, and I will be the host for this podcast. In this season two of ReligionWise, we will continue to consider a broad variety of religious and cultural beliefs and practices, and try to understand their place in the contemporary conversation. If you like what you hear, I encourage you to explore the 12 episodes from season one that are available in your favorite podcast app. Also, we would love to hear from you with your questions, comments, or suggestions for future episodes. To reach us, please visit our website at religionandculture.com. There you will find our contact information and also have the opportunity to support this podcast and the work of the Institute. Today's episode features Reverend Janelle Neubauer, who serves as the college chaplain and director of religious and spiritual life at Muhlenberg College, this conversation is maybe a little bit different from what we normally do, where we think about religion in the public square, from the perspective of scholar professional who provides an analytical lens from the outside, on the phenomenon in question. Here. Instead, we're thinking with a practitioner with somebody who feels a deep vocational call to serve the church. I think you'll see that the reason for this conversation really hinges on a question that does concern the way that we talk about religion in the contemporary world. That is the question of global outreach and mission in a post colonial world. So thinking about the word mission, or thinking about missionary activities, from a progressive, academically interested lens, the connotations that come to mind very often are people who represent a religious tradition, going into a place where that tradition is not, trying to gain converts, trying to plant a church, trying to, you know, make headways into a community that is not exposed to that religious tradition. So, the connotations are very often of the mission work of Jehovah's Witnesses or the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, for example, whose model is one, where they very much see themselves as gaining converts to the, to the community of baptizing people into their group. And I think that that is a real practice that is something that that we can think about. However, in contemporary liberal Protestant groups, for example, that have a concern about the problems of the colonial enterprise and the problems of Western religious and other cultural organizations being involved in the global south or in places of the developing world, there is a cognizance of the issues that might be present here. I think even more so in an academic environment, as as I am in is to Institute for Religious and Cultural Understanding is in where progressive political ideas, really, I mean, frown is not strong enough a word but really are not supportive of those kinds of activities that might be perceived as hold overs or hangovers of the colonial enterprise. So what I was interested in talking to Pastor Neubauer about is the way in which mission is recontextualized, into a 21st century frame that imagines itself as not planting churches necessarily, or not gaining converts, but instead working in partnership with community partners on the ground, in this case, the Lutheran Church in Rwanda. I really enjoy doing this podcast because I learn so much from my guests, I learn about cultural context about fields of study about historical moments about religious phenomena that I hadn't thought of before. And this conversation is no different. I think it's not hard to imagine that many of us our knowledge of Rwanda is limited to the genocide in the mid 90s. This conversation, I think, provides a little more color to that conversation to that history, and shows a picture of this this country, this very young country, demographically, coming to terms with its own past and how religion in particular varieties of Christianity in this context are a part of the cultural fabric moving forward. Reverend Janelle Neubauer, thank you for joining us on ReligionWise.
Janelle Neubauer:Great, thank you. I'm very excited to be here with you.
Chip Gruen:So currently you serve as the college chaplain and the director of religious and spiritual life for Muhlenberg College. But before serving in that capacity, you served for the ELCA of America in a pastoral capacity overseas. Can you talk a little bit about the trajectory that led you to your post abroad?
Janelle Neubauer:Sure. So I first felt a call to ministry when I was serving as what's called a Young Adult in Global Mission in the Evangelical Lutheran Church in America in the ELCA, immediately after college, and so really, my call to ministry was born out of abroad experience and relating to the global church. So it was not expected when you go to seminary to become a pastor in the ELCA, you were expected to go into parish ministry, meaning into a congregation, a domestic congregation, but I continued through seminary to engage with the community I'd served abroad, which was the Evangelical Lutheran Church of Jordan and the Holy Land, I made it a focus of my study, I went back and served in Jerusalem again. And so there was that was a through line of my seminary experience. When it came to graduation, I was ready to go into a parish knowing that that was not only the expectation, but that was what I was trained to do was to be in parish ministry. However, I was asked to apply to be a country coordinator for the same program I had served in as a recent graduate from college. So I put in the application to be a country coordinator for Young Adults in Global Mission, thinking that, even if I don't get the position, they'll know I'm interested. Later on down the line, after my first call in a parish, I'll go abroad. They called me back and invited me to consider going to Rwanda, I had never in my life, even as I put in the application, that was not a country program that was seeking a coordinator at the time, and so it was not something that was on my mind. And yet, as I had been writing the application, I began to realize my positionality in the church, as a young woman, as a recent graduate, somebody looking at a first call in ministry, somebody who has a passion for thinking of faith as it relates to the public square, that all of those things, I might have a bit more, I want to use the word power, but it's, it's more just like, once again, that positionality. I might have a bit more access to be in deep conversation with with young adults in a global setting, instead of being put in a parish, as a first year pastor, where I would be expected to, to do what had been done previously, and maybe not be able to engage in in that sort of deep interrogation of faith in public life. And so that's how I found myself in in global mission right out of seminary, not because I expected to be there, I thought maybe I would at some point, but rather, because when I was, I was asked by the larger church to consider it, I realized maybe this is the place where right now, my, my positionality, my authority is going to have a greater ability to proclaim the gospel, which is what you're called to do, as a pastor, to young adults in a really formative moment in their lives through a global lens.
Chip Gruen:So I think it's safe to say that, that most of our listeners only know about Rwanda, from the headlines from what they've read from the tragic events that have unfolded over the last several years. And here you are, in that place, representing to a large extent representing the ELCA in that country. Can you provide some context for what that looks like? I mean, as you say, at the time, you're a young woman fresh out of seminary, you're in this war torn or previously war torn place, and you're put in this position of like the word you say, of power. What does that look like when you get off the plane? What does that look like? And how do you find yourself in that in that community?
Janelle Neubauer:Yeah. So just to clarify, the one of the things about Rwanda that was challenging was even discussing it before I left One because I had very limited knowledge of the context of the country. And as a lot of people around me, my one point of reference was, unfortunately, the genocide against the Tutsi in 1994. And some people were very worried for me heading to a place that had seen such catastrophe. And knowing that, that that was such a such a painful moment, not only in the history of Rwanda, but then was broadcast around the world was, was understood, and now through movies like Hotel Rwanda, or the like. And so that was a, that was an initial challenge was recognizing like, I need to, I need to understand this country beyond the genocide, without losing the context of that, because it does distinctly shape who the nation is now. But because that was in 1994. I mean, we do have to remember, that was almost 30 years ago now. And so the development of the country of Rwanda, for anyone listening, please look it up, check it out, it's an incredible place, except for the markers that they have specifically placed in prominent locations around the country, to show the mass graves and to remember those who are lost, you would not know that that war had taken place. And so when I get off the plane, I still, for the most part, the books I found related to that moment in history. So I had done my readings, I tried to understand a bit more about that point in history, how it how it relates to the lives of the people today. But I also knew that I was in a very vulnerable isn't isn't the right word, but a position where I needed to listen deeply to what was happening around me now. And so, I land in Kigali, I begin trying to learn the language, I begin conversations with my partners in ministry, the leadership of the Lutheran Church of Rwanda, I try and get to the different museums that are available. And, and just listen to the people now. And that's where I had to begin. And when it came to my ministry as a young woman, and I'll also say, a young single woman, because that's important for the Rwandan context, that and actually the word the word used for an unmarried woman is either girl, or there is a specific word for a young woman, but but that's a that's a distinction at my age I was I was old, for not being married. But um, so there was there are these things that I had to also think about in terms of my what I keep using this word positionality. When I, when I was relating to the community there, first I was coming from the United States, which put me in a position of power a lot of people understand coming from the US is coming from wealth, regardless of what your socio economic status would be. And then also the, the historical imprint of colonialism. And being a white person definitely had an impact on how I was understood in the culture. It was, it was a common phrase to to hear people point at me from young children who are excited to greet me as a white person, the word being muzungu to adults, even kind of staring me down and greeting me in the same way. And so, so trying to understand my place like as a very visible white person in the country, and what that represented through this colonial lens, and then the fact that as a young woman, regardless of some of the power that I had, there was some there was something also that was lost in the authority that I may have been able to kind of take on so. So those are, those are some of the pieces that I was grappling with as I first landed in the country, and also as I was engaging and learning from my community. When it came to relating to the church, it was a great it was a great joy to be alongside the community there, because the relationship between the Lutheran Church of Rwanda and the Evangelical Lutheran Church in America had existed for quite a long time at this point I was, I don't remember the exact number, but I was definitely not the first of the ELCA missionaries to relate to that space. And so there was excitement that this relationship was continuing. Because when it comes to how the Evangelical Lutheran Church in America relates to our partners around the world, it is through that word is through relationship first, primarily. And from there, we build up, what does that what does that relationship mean, and how we operate as in partnership, and in support of one another? Is there is there more that you can add, like a piece of the question that I can get at?
Chip Gruen:Yeah, so I guess what I'm really interested in here is, you know, as you say, the denominational structure that you're a part of, and in fact, Muhlenberg College is a part of the Evangelical Lutheran Church in America very prominently has the the in America part of that. And there is then, of course, the Lutheran Church of Rwanda that you've mentioned. And and particularly considering this baggage, this background of colonialism this this. I'm just really curious about the roles there. I mean, I could imagine, you know, someone thinking, Well, if there is a Lutheran Church in Rwanda, why is it necessary that there is this global outreach from the ELCA? Like, what is the what is the I mean, aside from the relationship that you talked about, like, what is the basis on which that that relationship is built? Like what is what is the purpose? What is the function of the work of the ELCA, and its partners there?
Janelle Neubauer:Sure, I'd say, as I mentioned before, that's rooted in relationships. So it's rooted in the fact that we understand the global church as something beyond our institutional structures that develop in each country. And so in one way we have, we have the great privilege in the United States of having opportunity to, and resources to send people in, and reach out and be these liaisons be these connectors, between these institutional churches that we're a part of, and, and what we would hope, theologically relate to, to what we would we would think of as the global church, the Body of Christ in the world. And so that's one one specific distinction, and the the best way of doing that is by walking along, alongside each other hand in hand. And so you can, you can only do so much when it's on a phone call or in quick visits or things like that, but for community members to actually have continued engagement. Within our partner churches, then there's a deeper appreciation and awareness for how we can relate to one another and work alongside each other in the different contexts we find ourselves. That being said, the Lutheran Church of Rwanda, going back to the history of the genocide, has a very unique story when it comes to Christianity in Rwanda. So short history lesson - Rwanda was originally colonized by the Germans. And so when they came in, you think of Germany, the Lutheran church isn't too far behind. And so there was an initial Lutheran church at the beginning of that colonization. However, when World War One happened, Germany lost its mandates throughout the continent of Africa. And that was then given to Belgium. And with that, the Lutheran church kind of dissipated, there was no longer a Lutheran church and Rwanda. Fast forward to a time period long before the 1994 genocide, when there have been pogroms happening against the Tutsi population, ever since the independence of Rwanda from Belgium. There's a long history there of how how the even the ethnic groups had not existed in the same ways that they were then understood by the by the people because of the Belgian influence, and wanting to and control the population by elevating some people above others. And that's how we get these ethnic distinctions between the Tutsi and Hutu. But when independence occurred and the Hutu population was given the power of the country, there was quite a bit of violence against the Tutsi and many fled into exile into Uganda into Congo, into Burundi and then also into Tanzania. Those who went to Tanzania, Tanzania was also originally colonized by the Germans huge Lutheran presence there that continued to grow. Those Rwandans connected themselves to the Lutheran church in refugee camps. A couple of them became pastors. After the genocide, when Rwandans were both excited to return to Rwanda, but also in some ways being pushed out of their countries where, where they had been living as refugees, they returned to Rwanda as Lutheran pastors, and on Christmas Eve of 1994. So only, what six months or so after the genocide ended, the first service of the Lutheran Church of Rwanda began. And so the Lutheran Church of Rwanda is actually founded by refugee Rwandans returning back to Rwanda post genocide. With that, they lost a lot of their assets and resources they had developed, when they were living in Tanzania, when they were living in exile, they lived good lives. But upon returning to Rwanda, there was there was an uphill battle to restore the communities that they had left behind their parents had left behind decades before. And so we also look at our partnerships globally, as a way to amplify and support with resources when we can, at the, you know, at the request of the partnering church, to receive support. So the Lutheran Church of Rwanda began as a very humble church. And so the partnerships with different organizations around the world are in part to, to help to build that church back up, where there were few resources to begin with.
Chip Gruen:Wow, that's, that's so interesting to hear about the church being basically in exile in Tanzania, and then only reestablishing after the genocide. I mean, that's, that's fascinating.
Janelle Neubauer:Well, most of the most of the Rwandan refugees in Tanzania were not Lutheran, they were coming from a Catholic background, but the Catholic Church was pretty participatory, in, in actually the, like, the ethnic conflict, in large part because of missionary priests out of Belgium, who were spewing the, what was called the Hamitic myth.
Chip Gruen:Oh, yes.
Janelle Neubauer:Yeah. So it was it was white Belgian priests, who, using the Hamitic myth, were saying that ethnic Tutsis came from the people of Ham, and we're taking power and control away from the indigenous Hutu. And I mean, honestly, the Hutu probably weren't indigenous either. There was a whole third group called the Twa. It was actually part partially because of missionary theology, that the ethnic tensions develop the way that they did. So they went, Tutsis fled in exile, were like, we're not going to be Catholic anymore. And the Lutheran church was dominant in Tanzania. And so they became Lutheran.
Chip Gruen:Wow.
Janelle Neubauer:I found like, talking to a lot of people on campus who are like, you know, we're not part of religious tradition, because it's so horrific, like it's it's participated in, like, almost any religious tradition has participated in some form of harmful this or that. At least from my religious studies, I felt this and so it's not always always the case for folks, I know this, but I found great value in each religious tradition. And then the the fallacies of humankind were the were the problem. So how can I participate in lifting up the value of a faith tradition while confronting the human harm done with it? So kind of that, like, do you leave the system behind? Or do you try and work within it to change it?
Chip Gruen:So one of the things that if you look up and you start reading about contemporary Rwanda, one of the things that that pops up is the youth of the population. And I would guess that this would have something to do with the genocide of the early 90s That these, these things have long legs, right, that that those catastrophes take a long time to work through through the demographics. And you know, hearing you talk about the reestablishment of the Lutheran Church of Rwanda only in the early 90s from abroad from this refugee state. I mean I mean, just generally, how does the youth of the country affect that? Does the youth is the Lutheran movement look younger because, you know, because you have this new establishment? I mean, how does the demographics and the and the religious identity and, and ethnic identity for that matter, how does that all, it seems like it would mix together in really interesting ways.
Janelle Neubauer:It does. And it's one of the focal points of the Lutheran Church of Rwanda's ministry is connecting with youth. And they do that in a number of different ways. They, they want to connect with young adults, primarily doing so through music. And so it is, though, I would, though, I would say that I love if, if one of the churches in the villages has a drum like Rwandan drumming is beautiful, and, and the singing and dancing is just lovely, and it's a drum and acapella. And I would, I would love being in worship services like that, but the youth of the nation are not as excited about that as I am. And so one of one of the ways that churches these days are extending themselves to connect with youth is often by getting a synthesizer. And so music and having a lot of praise and opportunities for dancing and singing. And in the excitement of of the worshipping congregation, that's, that's one of the focus points, because there there are a lot of youth and how and it's changing the landscape of the Lutheran church so that I'm sure the Lutheran Church in Tanzania, where the Lutheran Church of Rwanda, these leaders had been formed, does not look quite the same. The Lutheran Church of Rwanda has a very distinct worship tradition now because of the way that they're engaging their youth to be a part of the liturgy in new ways. Additionally, as with a lot of Lutheran communities around the world, there's a focus beyond specific theological or spiritual formation, and wanting to care for the whole person. And so the Lutheran Church of Rwanda focuses in on providing early childhood education services on providing elementary schools. And so education services is another way that they really want to be supporting this younger population to make sure Rwanda really promotes education for all of its youth. And so the Lutheran Church of Rwanda wants to be a part of that.
Chip Gruen:I'm interested in, in your mentioning, you know, what I would characterize as, as the traditional music and dance, and as you mentioned, the drum, etc. But then, you know, a youth culture that is sort of pushing away from that towards something that is more I mean, quote, unquote, modern, right, the synthesizers you mentioned, and I'm really wondering about how religious systems in Rwanda are, you know, how much of the Lutheran experience in Rwanda is new and different? And how much does it meld with traditional ideas, traditional cultural practices? Or are there other denominational structures? We know, for example, Seventh Day Adventist are big, there's Catholic presence, there's other like, is there a difference in the way that that those traditional cultural patterns are, are sort of synthesized or combined, you know, with these other influences, right? Like how, it, does that, do those services feel different, right across denominational lines, because of the way that they deal with traditional culture, maybe that's the best way to put it.
Janelle Neubauer:I think the beautiful thing about the worship experience in in Rwanda that I found, and I'll admit, there are only a few times that I was in spaces, I went to a few Catholic services, specifically that were funerals or weddings. I don't know if I've ever found myself in a in a, like in a Seventh Day Adventist space, but it is a larger population there. But but one thing I did notice is that even though that there's this push from the youth to have updated instruments or sound systems or speakers or whatnot, that there is still a distinct Rwandan cultural presence. And so it is shifting in how that is being exercised. And yet, it's still very much there. And so, the dances used are, are frequently embedded with like Rwandan cultural dance that the dancing traditionally kind of looked like cows are very important in Rwanda, the cows with the big, big horns, which in other parts of Africa are, are called on ankole cattle, I believe. And so the the arms of the dancers extend as if they are cow horns. And you will see that in worship spaces like it becomes a way of praising. And so it's still distinctly Rwandan, from space to space, from the Catholic space to the Lutheran space to the Seventh Day Adventist space, I'd say sometimes there's some borrowing happening. So what I would see in the Lutheran Church of Rwanda is that we'd have, you know, the Lutheran church, traditionally, historically, coming out of Europe, had a liturgical worships worship experience, meaning it had kind of a scripted service of calls and responses and prayers. And when scripture is read and this and that. So now what we see is that there's this mesh of this want for, for more, like youth driven, modern techno music and dancing, and this liturgy, so you'll have a Rwandan pastor dressed in his robes with his vestments. And then my favorite is they'd look at their watch, and say, Okay, now we're going to do 20 minutes of praise. So unlike Lutheran services, in a lot of the world, they are not one hour long in Rwanda. And because you're because you're partially infusing this experience from say, a more Evangelical church, down the street, where you're hearing loud music and, and dancing and praise, happening for hours at a time. So how can we tap into that spiritual energy, but also have this theological, historical, liturgical connection to Lutherans around the world, to the church in Tanzania, and, and to the, the theological rootedness of that.
Chip Gruen:So we've mentioned a lot of these different groups, and I was actually really surprised as I was reading more about the numerical strength of Christian religious identity in Rwanda, like how strong, you know, vast majority of people identify as Christian. And so given your interest in interfaith discourses in religious pluralism, what is your perception of religious diversity in Rwanda now? How does the Lutheran church interact with other types of, of Christian communities? I know there's a small Muslim community as well. What what does that look like on the ground as far as you know, that embracing of, of pluralism and sort of a multi-religious context there?
Janelle Neubauer:Yeah, my my experience here is, is likewise limited, because one of the things I tried to, to understand of myself entering into another cultural space, was that my my invitation into Rwanda was through the Lutheran church. And so my priority was how to build relationship there, and how to connect with the community and the ways that they were operating as a specific community. And so I knew it wasn't within my purview to extend on behalf of the Lutheran Church of Rwanda into other church conversations. And so what I know is that from the leadership of the Lutheran Church of Rwanda, the general secretary and the, and the presiding bishop would participate in an ecumenical meeting that would take place I believe, once a month. And so there are structures by which the different Christian denominations are coming together to engage with one another and encourage one another. The way that that plays out in the day to day lives of community members, I think, is less how congregations are connecting to one another, and the fact that Rwanda is a community that is is tight knit, so even the structure of Rwandan life means that you know your neighbors, and every Saturday or one Saturday a month, you're expected to come together and you're what's called a, I think it's I think the English translation is village. The Kinyarwanda word is very fun, it's called Umudugudu, and you're expected to come together for the purposes of organizing yourselves as a group of neighbors, for social projects in the community. And so in those spaces, you're going to find yourselves brushing shoulders with people of all different faith groups. And so in the lives of folks, there's not a ton of parochialism around religious identity, there are pockets where you'll find larger Muslim communities. You're right there is it's small, but it's present, especially in certain neighborhoods, Muslim communities, but the Christian landscape, I think, is a little less isolated from itself. And so I think it's it's kind of similar to what we see in the US, where there are some churches who really take on a humanism and wanting to connect and relate to one another, be it through their written relationship of full communion partners or through activities in the community. And there are, there are other communities that are a little more isolated, a little more willing to say, like, nah we're going to like to stick to our religious community, and, and relate civically to everyone else. So I didn't find it all too different from the United States, but I will say in the broader landscape of Christianity in Rwanda, the Lutheran Church of Rwanda is actually quite small. So the the strongest group being the Catholic presence, followed by I don't know what it stands for, but we used to call it Adepr, A-D-E-P-R and then Seventh Day Adventist, and so on and so forth.
Chip Gruen:So you and how long were you in Rwanda, how long did this position last for you there?
Janelle Neubauer:So I was living there for four years, the last of which was during the pandemic, and would have stayed longer had the pandemic not put a hold on the program I was coordinating. And so I was called home at that point.
Chip Gruen:So you find yourself here at Muhlenberg College, which, you know, is the understatement to say that it is a different type of constituency. But I've got to feel like knowing your your personality a little bit that you have really looked to see connections and how that experience in Rwanda has prepared you and in some ways for the for the work you're doing now. Can you talk about sort of the, you know, the lingering effects of that experience in Rwanda for your current ministry?
Janelle Neubauer:Sure. I think it's interesting, because I'm still unpacking that. There are still days where I am walking down academic row on Muhlenberg's campus and have a sudden flash of memory for somewhere I was walking in Rwanda, under very different circumstances, doing very different ministry, and yet there are these through lines, there are these common threads and so in, in the ELCA, our, our global mission unit, which is now called service and justice, but it operates through a model of what's called accompaniment. And that was a, a model kind of granted to us given to us as a as a gift by our partner churches as in Latin America. So it's really this theology of relationship that developed in Latin America, that the ELCA then realized is such a powerful way of relating globally. So that is how I was developed as a minister, both in seminary and then in Rwanda. And that's what I bring with me to Muhlenberg, so accompaniment is, is a missionary model that's less related to proselytizing, evangelizing, trying to convince people of something and rather it is about that, that mutual interdependence that we all require for human existence, for human flourishing, and that being rooted in for us a theology of love and grace of Jesus Christ. So, coming to Muhlenberg's campus, the ministry itself looks entirely different than Rwanda. And yet there's this through line where I am still walking alongside people of great diversity of great difference. Now in Rwanda, that was that was cultural, that was socioeconomic, that was just literal life experiences. On Muhlenberg's campus, that's still the case. But then you have the added layer. The fact that as the chaplain, I'm responsible to walk alongside faculty, staff, students, regardless of their worldview, where I was predominantly relating to Lutheran Christians in Rwanda. Now, I am expected to relate to and support a diversity of worldview expressions on on a college campus. And it's entirely different when it comes to positionality. So I spoke about my original call to Rwanda being one where I recognized I was being called there in part because that's where I could have the greatest impact on the people I was called to serve. And when I say that, yes, I was called to serve the Lutheran Church of Rwanda, but I wasn't looking to have an impact on on my, you know, community, like the Rwandan communities that were inviting me there as much as I was the young adults from the United States who I was coordinating, right, because that's where I had the the connection, that's where I had the place of challenge. That's where I could walk alongside them, while they really struggled to figure out what it meant to be a global citizen, and a person of faith in a different context. On Muhlenberg's campus, I don't have just this small handful of young adults. I have a campus community filled with them. And I'm not this one Mzungu, this one very visible, white lady walking among a population that, you know, as a visitor, I am instead representative of the norm on a predominantly white campus. And so, there's also a challenge there, because represent being representative of this, like, broader institution means that there's also certain assumptions that are made about me as a pastor, as a chaplain, as a Christian, as as a white person, and some of them are rightly so and others are like, okay, let's try and break down some some barriers, some boundaries in conversation and really challenged students to think more broadly about identity and how how they relate to other people, but learning how to relate to other people, you first need to understand yourself. And so Muhlenberg is such a different context, of course, in ministry than Rwanda was. And that comes with, I'd say, more challenges because there's a there's a breadth and responsibility of my ministry here that was not quite the same as when I was relating to such a specific population in Rwanda.
Chip Gruen:So one of the things that you run into here, I mean, particularly among the faculty, although in students as well, and just the general zeitgeist of, of a place, like Muhlenberg is that there's a relatively large strain of people with very progressive attitudes about race and ethnicity and judgments about the colonial experience and the global south and the West's relationship with it. And I think that this leads to a lot of conceptions and misconceptions about about the role of not only the ELCA but other religious organizations in in other places. And I wonder, I mean, I certainly have never spoken to anybody who has a better vantage point from which to think about this, but I wonder how you you think about public perceptions and reality of missionary activity and the work of Western religious institutions, you know, in, in, in other places in in foreign places where they're doing this work.
Janelle Neubauer:Yeah, and I'll even start by by saying that some of the some of those assumptions that people might have if they're unfamiliar with, with a Christian denomination, or maybe if they are familiar with with one specific one, or through through the media or pop culture, or whatnot is, is that those assumptions relate to Christianity more broadly. And so being on being on a campus, like Muhlenberg, which is, as we've said, affiliated with the Lutheran Church in America, the ELCA, but lives into a very what I would call a very Lutheran identity as a place of education, regardless of worldview expression, identity, like socioeconomic status, location, like it, it is an institution that that lives into its Lutheran heritage in how we operate, but not in how we verbalize who we are. And so there's there's not a lot of understanding about, about this distinction in different Christian groups around why we do what we do. And but I say all of that, because I don't I don't think even on Muhlenberg's campus, it's understood why we are affiliated with the Lutheran church. And I think similarly, there is a lot of skepticism about why the Christian church relates to other places, say in the global south or whatnot. I myself struggled with the term missionary, when, as a just graduating college student, was connecting to this program that was going to send me to work alongside another, like another church in the world. So when I went and served alongside the Evangelical Lutheran Church of Jordan and the Holy Land, my points of connection in that church, were not US citizens doing mission work in Israel and Palestine. It was the local Christian community. And that's what is often missed is that when we talk about missionary service, in the ELCA, what we are talking about, is connecting with the churches that already exist in the places where we are partners. And so, in the West Bank, I was serving Pales...serving alongside Palestinian pastors, and a school for Palestinian youth, a Lutheran School that served Muslims, Christians of many denominations, there are very few Lutherans there, too. But it was about once again, that access to education for all people. When I was serving in Rwanda, I was serving alongside the Lutheran Church of Rwanda, which was entirely Rwandan. And leading a program that brought other young adults to serve in those same communities. Not to do their own projects, but to connect with the community to see and learn from them how faithful living looks in another part of the world and how they could participate in that mutually instead of trying to develop a program and then walking away or trying to necessarily convert folks to the Lutheran church. Rather, it was about how do we learn from one another in the human experience? So that that is often it lost and I wonder if it's because we don't talk about it enough. Like where's the conversation? On Muhlenberg's campus I think about that, like what's my responsibility for for sharing more broadly with the with the community who may have have very little awareness or understanding other than these stereotypical views of missionary service. What what it means to, to relate to the world as a as a as a Christian as a faithful person, and not necessarily be trying to convince or convert somebody. This is relational. It's not about proselytizing. And it's not intended to be a bait and switch, but it is intended to say like our our faith tradition leads us to act this way. So we want to be in relationship with you, and we leave the door open for whatever's going to happen on account of that relationship. There's there's a different theological and spiritual thrust behind that engagement.
Chip Gruen:Yeah, I wonder, you know, just thinking, as you're talking, I'm thinking about how, you know, we're both interested in the way that you know, religion is talked about or is translated in the public square, in public conversation. And when we think about this subcategory of religious activity that we sort of, over simplistically refer as mission work, right, what what is the, the sort of the average person's interaction? Is, you know, somebody knocking on their door, right? Or, or if you had a history class and sort of the bad old days of missionary work in places during the period of colonial expansion, like it's a really a very, it's, it's not hard to see why how this word ends up being sort of understood as being simply a representation of one thing when the category, you know, might might contain lots of different things.
Janelle Neubauer:Right, right.
Chip Gruen:Pastor Janelle Neubauer, thank you so much for being with us today on ReligionWise. It's been great to talk to you and I've learned a tremendous amount and I need to do some more reading I think about Rwanda generally, and and the religious presence there. So I really appreciate your time. Thank you.
Janelle Neubauer:Thank you so much. It's been a pleasure to be with you today.
Chip Gruen:This has been ReligionWise a podcast produced by the Institute for Religious and Cultural Understanding of Muhlenberg College. ReligionWise is produced and directed by Christine Flicker. For more information about additional programming, or to make an inquiry about a speaking engagement. Please visit our website at religionandculture.com. There you'll find our contact information, links to other programming and have the opportunity to support the work of the Institute. Please subscribe to ReligionWise wherever you get your podcasts. We look forward to seeing you next time.